Do you want to report "Crime, Banking, Poverty. Why is Jamaica so behind?"
Firstly this is a genuine question, I am not trying to offend anyone, I would like to understand Jamaica from the perspective of Jamaicans. I am a British American of Jamaican descent and I have only visited the country one time in 2005. Jamaica has the second highest murder rate on the planet, poorly maintained infrastructure, a corrupt government and a dysfunctional banking system. These issues are frequently posted on this subreddit. I believe these are some of the fundamental building blocks of a developed country. Without these building blocks I do not see how a country can progress, but since I visited the country almost 20 years ago its seems as if none of the above issues have been addressed in any meaningful way. Please can anyone offer their explanations for why this is the case? If the banking system is so poor why has nobody started a new bank? If the government is so corrupt why has nobody started a new political party? What’s holding Jamaica back in your opinion?
My family own a piece of land that is overrun by a criminal gang. I went to the political leader for the area to assist in getting them to come off so that we can develop it. We were willing to pay the moving costs.
First, he told me to build housing for them and he’d move them into it. After asking him if he was insane, he told me that he could make sure I never step on that land ever again. Now he’s trying to use the squatter law to take the land so he can kick them off and sell at market value. Which he has done at least twice before to public knowledge.
I hope that answers your question.
The corruption is far too deep now to fix. It would take a reset of the entire structure and pure chaos.
Jamaica is Haiti 2.0
Haha same scenario here… it’s political af rn (land)… I have precedent land that was adjudicated to someone else because the government newly made that law.
What has happened to Jamaica is that capitalism and narcissism has seeped through the minds of the population.. it’s no longer about building value but getting it..
Ever since Manley, the whole Jamaican infrastructure has stopped being built; because of USA intervention as well as other do gooder countries… they’ve used the idea of hard cash to infiltrate the politicians into mindless corrupt assholes who have no clue when they’re being manipulated.
After Seaga was instilled by the CIA, they have removed the mental scape of the cultural aspects of Jamaica and replaced it with economics.
2005 was potentially the last peak of what Manley did for this country…. Since then politicians have been blatantly stealing without reinvesting in the country.
Politicians make deals to basically trade cocaine currency for our limestone to make vast hotels… Hotels that profit from the crime… Hotels have an intrinsic value to keep crime alive and that’s what they do… by helping to create a narrative, which in turns shuts the mass of Jamaica out from international economic opportunities.
Jamaica once used to own the hotels and they made money…. But ofcourse mismanagement is alot to blame- but that’s when the erosion of culture began (and was seeded with capitalism)..
Not to mention our airports are now owned by Spanish people of the distributory degree… which means that Jamaica is now truly a hub of movement for uncontrolled criminal enterprises looking to pay to play the game. So now there is less regulation at our borders and guns and drugs can come in at a rate at which the current PM really cannot control nor do they really want to.
And lastly our current PM is not a very smart guy- the last good PM we really had was Golding.. he played the game fairly… but as for Andrew- he has no education ON the game… he’s being pulled by imaginary means to do things he’s not currently aware of.
Also to note is that Jamaica is increasingly becoming a police state; as the PM split the minister of defence and security when he took office and is the sole commander of our military. Andrew Holness also marred the constitution when he instilled the current Chief Justice… hence the ease in creating laws / “policies” at his current whim. They’ve doubled down recently in making the claim known, that they The Executive branch will be working “together” or be advised by the Judiciary….thus breaking the separation of powers.
No no, I know these things are not blatant but they’re evident… but we have a passive placated society of Jamaicans… but if only we knew our power.
And no am not advocating for communism but truly Jamaica’s infrastructure was truly built by soviet influence… (you can even check out Jamaican architecture).
I would have to disagree on some finer points, but I get your over all sentiment and agree.
I would say Jamaica’s best infrastructure was built by the British. We just failed to maintain it when they handed it over. I think the country was on the trajectory of greatness, and seriously could’ve been the Singapore of the West.
I’m not a big fan of Manley’s actions either… I think he had a fantastic idea and spoke with passion, but he implemented a lot of the entitlement and bureaucratic culture we still suffer from today. The most productive Jamaicans leave for countries where they can get their head above water and pursue their goals and have a better way of life.
I am privileged in Jamaica and even I know how impossible and frustrating it is to conduct simple tasks on a daily basis. I used to wait in line for hours to do arbitrary tasks and wonder….. I know I can afford to do this, but how the HELL does everyone else???
Manley’s intentions were thwarted(by the CIA) which is what people seem not to look at when it comes to his criticism….
Hmmm and you say infrastructure as in the law from the British, building, policies?
As for Jamaican infrastructure that actually appeals to the masses I meant 1. things like NHT and NWC .. created and structured (physical) infrastructure 2. the way in which we build / built Jamaica is by Soviet architectural influence (buildings from the late 50s) … 3. Aluminum manufacturing (potentially Jamaica’s oldest contemporary industry); which shaped a lot of communities (eg. Mandeville)…
One thing I don’t understand is how people gloss over the fact that Gorbachev eliminated communism in Russia. Currently Russia runs as a capitalist state, and they’ve never enslaved blacks… And sure they might have made friends for their benefit but I have yet to see Russia be a bad operative in society; especially Caribbean and Latin American societies.
And yes I agree lots of capable and smart Jamaicans leave; but that’s because the society is structured for brain drain- and who gains? 1st world countries… while they buy the neglected lands- and generation of blacks have to restart their wealth in a country not necessarily built for them to thrive. If you do the statistics, people in western Jamaica migrate at a high rate and never return(much or at all)… this is mostly due to the capitalistic factor / advantage of crime to the Noreen government.
Wait… Russia is your standard for a capitalist democracy?
Would love you provide any other examples so I can get a better picture of what successful democracy looks like.
NHT was a great idea, but falls into the same basket of corruption and mismanagement. NWC? Omg… talk about an inefficient bureaucracy. That’s the biggest one.
Britain is a shining example of a socialist democracy for the world in my opinion and the path (infrastructure such as roads, dams, grid, parliament, etc) they provided for us was incredible. We just had too many crabs in the barrel…. and have just bred more ever since.
Lmao you’re praising what the British did for their colony … to me that’s a mere given… it’s what should be done… but a country that raped us then “invested” in us, versus another country invested without raping (regardless of their ulterior motive)..- so in that case I’ll take the non rapers (Russia).
I’m talking about the infrastructure of policy and mentality… you can’t blame a man for trying-NHT was great up until about 7 years ago.. and all these polices were of Soviet influence. America has caused capitalism to breed criminals in Jamaica, because capitalism comes with a narcissistic mentality rather than a communal one.
To me Jamaica is one of the most capitalist state… America is capitalist but with a lot of bureaucracy… I’d much rather a heavily lawful state that has control over their black market or their “alternative” lifestyle/ crime enterprises, rather than one that places heavy policing over the whole state and causes more capitalist corruption… (yes I prefer structured corruption over rampant uncontrolled ).
Russia is capitalist but because of its size it HAS to enact some communist / socialist policies.I don’t believe in democracy- because it’s all a lie anyway… I think a new system must be created for government….
I can never understand people who are behind the colonist more than Russia- Russia has done nothing to the world ..
I’m sorry you’re jaded enough to think Russia hasn’t done anything to the world and that democracy is a lie.
I think we all need to appreciate the brief moment of stability we’ve had. Some places in the world have had to live through pure horror.
The very creators of democracy didn’t believe in it… please read about Plato.. and Socrates on Democracy ..
Horror comes in cycles my friend, we had slavery for a while…. It’s sad how people fall prone to the very propaganda that the people in control propagate… please let me know what RUSSIA has done to the world… Sure you can mention Stalin, but I suppose in every large country at the time of previous proposed power had their Stalin…And even to that end it was the USSR..
Russia never enslaved blacks… you don’t even need a visa to go there from Jamaica… Russia wants to keep the world on a steady pace of progress not one that is totally inherently capitalist…. Which means they have to balance good and bad, and I think Putin does so well… more overt nuances of “bad” rather than some western countries covert pretences of absolute good…
I challenge you to name one thing Russia has done to the world … please I really would like a perspective.
> I challenge you to name one thing Russia has done to the world … please I really would like a perspective.
This is very late but:
2022 invasion of Ukraine.
2014 invasion of Ukraine.
Russian conflict in Georgia.
Supply of Russian soldiers and PMCs in Syria, West and Central Africa, virtually all for authoritarian and strongman ends.
The Russian Empire
There are entire regions of Eastern and Central Europe that have the same opinion of Russia as former British colonies have of the UK. Many worse so.
Corruption is the number one reason. Starting a new political party or bank? Easy way to get a target on your back. For example, a family friend of mine started a funeral parlor and we are almost 100% sure he got murdered because of a hit put out by a competitor. The corruption will not stop because the cost of living here is so damn high and people in power will always find ways to make money on the side. Like the depots we go to for motor vehicle license applications and tests. They are so corrupt they shuffle them every few months and nothing changes because everyone who works with them all over the island is in on it. So unless corruption is remedied….which idk how they are gonna pull that off, nothing will change.
Thank you for this answer, very insightful.
> idk how they are gonna pull that off
Corruption is an intrinsic feature of government because all humans are flawed. So the only way to eliminate corruption is to eliminate government itself. Someone needs to start a party with the explicit objective to slowly erode government. In the absence of government, free-market enterprise will create businesses that provide the services traditionally associated with the government, like trash collection, education and security services.
We get it you’re UIC, stop commenting on everything. I just listened to their live-stream, they’re the same as JLP and PNP.
If UIC gets into power, they’ll be just as susceptible to corruption as any other elected official. They’er not offering anything new just a different party to vote for. They haven’t proposed any actual changes to the system, just different people at the top. All they can say is “trust us, we’ll fix everything, we promise not to be corrupt” they are a wolf in sheeps clothing, UIC is not to be trusted.
Elites are an issue yes……but I propose another cause.
Driving up Constant Spring Road to Pavilion late yesterday morning. There as a sewage opening stinking up the place. ‘The place’ being the Mothers restaurant and the KFC in Springs. And despite the sewage, same long line of people, lining up to buy their food.
When you lack pride in your yourself , it actually starts a slippery slope to lacking pride in nation. After all, you are not proud of being a Jamaican , why should you have pride in Jamaica? Why take up the garbage and throw it in the bin? Why hold your institutions to account? You are not going to be a Jamaican for much longer anyway - You daddy filing for you, amirite?
Break that issue of cynicism in our culture, and you are halfway to the political and economic solution.
Of course, much of the questions you ask apply just as much to Great Britain and the U.S. If the majority of posts on Reddit are anything to go by. We are currently seeing global shifts, some that started in the 1973, some 1989, some 2008. The whole world has been feeling these changes since 2009ish, as I an sure you know.
Corruption is major issue. The need for links over qualifications is on of our biggest problems, resulting in too much violence. The temporary solution, unfortunately, is crime without violence. Think The Five Families meeting straightening out issues in The Godfather
I will the first to admit it. Holness is head of a failed state. But don’t worry, if countries like ours are anything to by, a permanent solution is already in the making. This solution, is usually implemented by small, highly disciplined groups of people, working in secret, on behalf of the Nation, the Race, the Dialectic - whatever. Think South Africa (Broederbond ), the Party (too many countries), that sort thing.
The question is though, will the cure be worse than the disease? .
Love JA but I cannot stand having to spend best part of a day in JN Bank, Constant Spring.
Few weeks ago took 3 hours just to deposit some UK sterling into my account, as I had lost my card.
IME any government type dealings I dread, I have to sort out my NHT, TRN and passport soon 😱😱
They just so far behind in terms of things like that, but I have to remember JA is not London. High rate of fraud doesn’t help too, so I understand why they are so stringent on things. Even to get a Sim card is a whole saga.
I’m going for 2 weeks at the end of December st Ann parish. Laughlands district. From what I can tell this is a safe area. We do have to purchase wifi when we’re at this particular rental but whatever. What is the deal with getting a sim?
Please could you tell me what you mean by IME, NHT, TRN?
Also what do you mean by “fraud”? People should be able to do what they want with their money. This seems to be a make-believe crime that gives the government justification to monitor and control how the public spends it’s money. You seem to fall for this lie yourself “so I understand why they are so stringent”.
You do realize there are conservatives on all sides, if not look into it.
Conservative:
It’s not a party thing, it’s cultural.
Oh how i wish we championed free enterprise & private ownership. When countries embrace free markets what happens is your gdp actually grows but also does the gap between the rich and the poor like in the U.S.
The difference between Jamaica and the U.S is that we’re not a free market country and hence our gdp never grows and all the educated, hard working people migrate because there aren’t any opportunities for them locally.
> i wish we championed free enterprise & private ownership
I fully agree with this.
Well the US economy isn’t that “free” actually, there are lots of regulations. Regulations are what cause the gap between the rich and the poor not the free-market itself. Look at the US all the largest and most profitable industries are highly regulated oligopolies; pharmaceuticals, banking & finance, communication. Regulation creates barriers to entry which makes it harder to start a business and compete with the existing operators in that industry. The more de-regulation the more opportunities for free enterprise and, in turn, upward social mobility.
I’m seeing alot of conspiracy theories and unbacked claims in this thread. Let me give you my views as a young Jamaican who studied Jamaican history.
Jamaica is only 60 years old. It just born and it was born with all the drawbacks of being a former colonial nation and slavery hub.
Most people will say it’s because of our leadership. And they’d be right.
But to be fair we are seeing change. We no longer have the second highest murder rate per capita, more people have access to opportunities and there are new initiatives and business started every day.
As to why no one has started a bank (and the wider principle behind your question) it’s because there is a great chance that you won’t make any real money doing it. Small businesses have an extraordinarily tough time in Jamaica and it is almost always easier to just go foreign and work a regular job.
So it’s young, it was born with nuff problems, there is little incentive to start a company here, the existing infrastructure is awful and perhaps most importantly our leaders are unquestionably making it worst
Some additional comments to what ppl have said:
You visited in 2005, that’s almost two decades ago - what is the basis of your conclusion of Jamaica being so behind? A bunch of random malcontents on social media? Some short-sighted distant relatives?
> “Lowest GDP ratio ever” this is true but it’s diabolically misleading its still at 91% of GDP which is insane. Don’t say “It’s lower than X country” because that’s not a valid response either.
It has been declining for a decade. 90 percent around where it should be, given our economy. That is not ‘insane’. That is actually under control. Any lower, and government can’t pay workers, get things done,.etc.
re. GDP - it’s a HUGE improvement, given that historically the ratio has been over 100%. For the first time we actually have “savings” that can be reinvested locally and provide a cushion.
Minor roads need work everywhere yes, but the major highways and thoroughfares throughout the country have had/are having massive upgrades. Constant Spring, Hagley Park Road, Barbican, North-South Highway, Highway 2000, North Coast highway, the new highway through St Thomas, the Reading to Sav road, the Melrose Hill Bypass, the Montego Bay Bypass, the planned Lucea and Spur Tree Bypasses.
Look at crime rates in many urban areas in the US, they’re much closer to us than the national average. But the US has orders of magnitude more opportunity, so you can’t compare.
KYC requirements are dictated by foreign banks and governments. The results of not adhering to them are disconnection from the int’l banking system (which would be catastrophic) and being branded as a money laundering destination, etc. I agree it’s hypocritical bullshit, but we don’t hold the handle in this area, so what to do?
Top 12 Countries with the Highest Debt-to-GDP Ratios (%)
Venezuela — 350%
Japan — 266%
Sudan — 259%
Greece — 206%
Lebanon — 172%
Cabo Verde — 157%
Italy — 156%
Libya — 155%
Portugal — 134%
Singapore — 131%
Bahrain — 128%
United States — 128%
Crypto is as it is.. and that’s what people don’t understand.. it’s just a public black market … Crypto isn’t meant to be mainstream…. It’s hopeful but it’s not meant to be. So crypto is as it should be.
El Salvador is taking the risk to be the 1st public black market country… and that’s okay.. I think it’s a worthwhile investment for them… <if it works out>
> Don’t say “It’s lower than X country” because that’s not a valid response either.
Sorry, but I am no longer responding to you.
Why is 91% high for Jamaica? Please - explain.
Unlike Russia, we have staple food to import, so sudden currency crashes are a no.
Cryptocurrencies as investment have crashed and always been a scam since I started following back in 2013. As a medium of exchange, they are utterly useless. See, El Salvador.
So wait a minute - you are against crime and corruption - but support money laundering? You believe these lotto scammers, dons and politicians sorting out them dirty money on the Stock Market,
Tbf we were doomed from the start. The two political parties were formed by two white men who uphold the monarch and continue the same colonial form of government which is one that is based on a master slave model. They did not intend to do anything to help black Jamaica that is why Marcus Garvey had to leave.
Solution?: There is a third registered party publicly funded by the people called the UIC but the media doesn’t showcase them because they are also complicit in many ways to the problems we face. Actually they are having a rally right now demanding good governance. Here is the link
If Jamaica is to improve its the people who have to do it from the ground up. Cannot depend on this Westminster system.
Very good break down that is why I dont vote for either party they are bought and paid for by the psoj. They have nothing to offer and will not help the people. The only option is a grassroots party from the people that is publicly funded that is why I am paying close attention to the UIC they have new ideas and are funded by the people especially in the Diaspora
This essentially ties into what I was saying previously. It is only now we see a political party that is being born from the people that is publicly funded. Check out their party the UIC they are even having a rally now u can watch it live on YouTube or drop in if you are nearby. What we all can agree on is that these two colonial parties are leading us right back into slavery
I mean… not many third world countries are out of slavery completely. Not that it’s an excuse. But without honest leadership, capitalism unchecked leads right back to abusing the poor, uneducated and desperate.
If you can’t even start a funeral home without getting murdered, what confidence would you have starting an aggressively anti-corruption political party? Seems to take a lot of bravery in a situation where most are just too desperate day-to-day to be able to risk it.
New parties are easier said than done. The electorate hasn’t reached that intellectual maturity to see beyond black and white. Like genders, political affiliation is assigned at birth and until people abandon their indoctrination and stop voting for party and vote for policy instead, the political climate of stagnation will endure. It will take another 50 years at the bare minimum for tribal politics to die and the dinosaurs with it. When that happens, a new era of politics will come forth. Until then, banana republic it is.
It all started when England left Jamaica and took all the resources with them to move Jamaica’s products,and left Jamaica with a debt to them, and left a baby/child aka Jamaica to try to grow with out the teachings of the new world….Jamaica is still on the wrong world…no export, too much import…when England stop exportation/export from Jamaica it stop the Major moving out products out the country
The biggest issue is corruption from the top down. They’ve convinced us that corruption is an average person issue; it’s not. All systems are governed by powerful, corrupt and inept people ensuring they have more money than they need. Case in point, JC paying off Ruel Ried while they owe a uniform maker millions.
I know this will sound insane but the why don’t we dispense of government entirely? It seems that humans are incapable of having the power to tax and create laws without turning to corruption. Maybe we should look for a new system without a since institution at the top controlling what the populous can and can’t do.
They know they can be removed which is why all govt have an overblown social policy that ensures the poorest in any given civilization that is also the largest section of the population will always keep them in.
Jamaica is a mixed economy, the free market section of the country needs to be more inovative and get problem solved, they are always like the government this the government that. The people in the country need to start making solutions to the problems , we need less reliance on the government. If they are so currupt why do you think they can change anything. Crime is solvable problem, curruption is a solvedable problem, poverty is definitely solvedable.
Dairy farmer got sold out by milk powder imports that received heavy subsidies by their respective countries. Donovan Stanberry does a great job bring this out. For example :
>Our cattle industry declined from 94,964 heads in 2007, according to STATIN’s Agricultural Census, to 64,504 heads in 2014, according to Ministry of Agriculture’s Cattle Census. Our prized breeds, beef and dairy, developed by the great Dr. T.P. Lecky, have not only deteriorated genetically, but their numbers are fast approaching the critical threshold required to sustain these breeds. The state of our pastures is way below the desired level, and during times of drought, which have become longer and more frequent, a bale of hay could buy a bag of gold!>>On the dairy side, due to liberalisation in the early 1990s, ostensibly to help poor people, we flew the gate on cheap, subsidised milk powder from Europe, and in the process, almost decimated our local dairy industry.>>The result: milk production fell from nearly 40 million litres per annum in the early 1990s, averaging 12 to 14 million litres in the last 10 years, with an attrition of over 500 farmers from the industry.
We need to stop listening to these IMF/World Bankers and learn to conserve.
Ask our consumers of dairy products how they like the free market. Protectionist policies will only increase our prices which we can’t bare.
If local farmers can’t produce goods at affordable rates then who cares about them, only the upper class would be able to stand such an increase.
